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Shawnhalu

Subframe, Diff, Arms Bushes

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I am sorry for starting a new thread on this. But after reading much, i am still confuse over the Bushes, which bushes will create more noise after swapping?

 

I seen alot of people saying about the Powered by Max Solid Subframe Riser.

 

My daily driven S15 bushes is old now. I was thinking swapping all the bushes. Can someone enlight me :)

 

Solid Subframe Riser? If i have this riser thing, i no longer need my uras super pineapple which is on the car right?

 

Nolathane Poly?

SuperPro Poly?

Whiteline Poly?

Driftwork Poly?

 

i heard some saying superpro is softer than whiteline? I am looking for a harder poly bush actually.

 

ps. Can S15 fit this Steering Adapter or Spacer?

steering-shaft-bush.jpg

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I am sorry for starting a new thread on this. But after reading much, i am still confuse over the Bushes, which bushes will create more noise after swapping?

 

NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness)

Where NVH is concerned, bushes stack in the following order (greater is better NVH, meaning less harsh):

 

Rubber(press-in only) > Vulcanised Rubber (press-in only) > Poly (press-in) > Poly (slip-in) > Alloy

 

If you want to tighten up a street car beyond oem specs, you should only use press-in Vulcanised Rubber bushes for your control arms, or adjustable arms with Vulcanised Rubber mounts (hardened rubber). I'm heavily biased towards Hardrace gear these days (having changed from oem -> spherical bearing arms -> HardRace rubber arms), but any vendor making this type of part/bush would do.

 

Press-in vs Slip-in Bushes vs Spherical/Pillowball

Press-in bushes are the ones in a metal sleave [same as oem], in which the rubber is bonded to the sleave, and the sleave can't rotate in the arm. Freedom of motion is great on a track car, but it's pretty shite on a street car, as there's a lot of benefit to having a maintenance-free sprung bush. By this I mean that you need not grease the bush regularly, and the resistance of the bush to torque acts as a secondary vibration damper, assuming you tightened the arm's nuts with the car at the correct ride height like you're supposed to (doesn't matter with poly/solid as they rotate).

 

Slip-in bushes are just blobs of poly/aluminium that you grease up, slot in the bush hole, run a steel bolt tube through and tighten up. They're stiffer than rubber and allow freedom of motion, but they transmit more vibration and require regular lubrication or they constantly squeak. Some bushes can be poly without issue (i.e. rack bushes, swaybar bushes, exhaust hangers), but I wouldn't ever put poly control arm bushes on a street car.

 

Spherical/Pillowball bushes use a sphere mounted in a brass-lined case, and are basically solid metal-to-metal. They rotate freely due to the natural lubrication properties of the liner, but the NVH is way high with these, and they will eventually thrash out and suck balls. Great for track cars, not street cars.

 

My daily driven S15 bushes is old now. I was thinking swapping all the bushes. Can someone enlight me :)

 

Easiest thing is to go to HardRace's website and replace all your LCA and control arm bushes. If you need adjustable arms they have rubber ones too, but otherwise if you can achieve your alignment settings with stock arms, then just replace all the stock bushes with vulcanised rubber bushes and call it a day. There's nothing wrong with the stock arms on most Silvias, with the exception of perhaps the Caster and Camber arms, which don't generally provide enough degrees of adjustment.

 

I seen alot of people saying about the Powered by Max Solid Subframe Riser.

Solid Subframe Riser? If i have this riser thing, i no longer need my uras super pineapple which is on the car right?

 

Subframe risers exist for people with slammed rides, scraping rails, etc, as they level-out your LCAs. Given the extra NVH of solid bushes, for the average street car I would avoid them.

 

You don't need your URAS super pineapple as it is... they lift the subframe even higher, and the S15 already has anti-squat built into the design. Remove them and leave them off.

 

Nolathane Poly?

SuperPro Poly?

Whiteline Poly?

Driftwork Poly?

i heard some saying superpro is softer than whiteline? I am looking for a harder poly bush actually.

 

I have Whiteline press-in poly bushes and they don't add too much extra NVH, yet the rear feels fairly solid, so I would recommend them. I'm not inclinded to rate SuperPro and Driftworks stuff based on feedback I've seen for various parts, but they only do slip-in bushes or solid bushes, so that rules them out for a street car anyway.

 

ps. Can S15 fit this Steering Adapter or Spacer?

 

Nope, they don't use a spacer. If by any chance I mentioned this in a past thread, I was mistaken. Check your car's steering shaft in the engine bay and you likely won't see a rubber bush anywhere on it.

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I am sorry for starting a new thread on this. But after reading much, i am still confuse over the Bushes, which bushes will create more noise after swapping?

 

NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness)

Where NVH is concerned, bushes stack in the following order (greater is better NVH, meaning less harsh):

 

Rubber(press-in only) > Vulcanised Rubber (press-in only) > Poly (press-in) > Poly (slip-in) > Alloy

 

If you want to tighten up a street car beyond oem specs, you should only use press-in Vulcanised Rubber bushes for your control arms, or adjustable arms with Vulcanised Rubber mounts (hardened rubber). I'm heavily biased towards Hardrace gear these days (having changed from oem -> spherical bearing arms -> HardRace rubber arms), but any vendor making this type of part/bush would do.

 

Press-in vs Slip-in Bushes vs Spherical/Pillowball

Press-in bushes are the ones in a metal sleave [same as oem], in which the rubber is bonded to the sleave, and the sleave can't rotate in the arm. Freedom of motion is great on a track car, but it's pretty shite on a street car, as there's a lot of benefit to having a maintenance-free sprung bush. By this I mean that you need not grease the bush regularly, and the resistance of the bush to torque acts as a secondary vibration damper, assuming you tightened the arm's nuts with the car at the correct ride height like you're supposed to (doesn't matter with poly/solid as they rotate).

 

Slip-in bushes are just blobs of poly/aluminium that you grease up, slot in the bush hole, run a steel bolt tube through and tighten up. They're stiffer than rubber and allow freedom of motion, but they transmit more vibration and require regular lubrication or they constantly squeak. Some bushes can be poly without issue (i.e. rack bushes, swaybar bushes, exhaust hangers), but I wouldn't ever put poly control arm bushes on a street car.

 

Spherical/Pillowball bushes use a sphere mounted in a brass-lined case, and are basically solid metal-to-metal. They rotate freely due to the natural lubrication properties of the liner, but the NVH is way high with these, and they will eventually thrash out and suck balls. Great for track cars, not street cars.

 

My daily driven S15 bushes is old now. I was thinking swapping all the bushes. Can someone enlight me smile.png

 

Easiest thing is to go to HardRace's website and replace all your LCA and control arm bushes. If you need adjustable arms they have rubber ones too, but otherwise if you can achieve your alignment settings with stock arms, then just replace all the stock bushes with vulcanised rubber bushes and call it a day. There's nothing wrong with the stock arms on most Silvias, with the exception of perhaps the Caster and Camber arms, which don't generally provide enough degrees of adjustment.

 

I seen alot of people saying about the Powered by Max Solid Subframe Riser.

Solid Subframe Riser? If i have this riser thing, i no longer need my uras super pineapple which is on the car right?

 

Subframe risers exist for people with slammed rides, scraping rails, etc, as they level-out your LCAs. Given the extra NVH of solid bushes, for the average street car I would avoid them.

 

You don't need your URAS super pineapple as it is... they lift the subframe even higher, and the S15 already has anti-squat built into the design. Remove them and leave them off.

 

Nolathane Poly?

SuperPro Poly?

Whiteline Poly?

Driftwork Poly?

i heard some saying superpro is softer than whiteline? I am looking for a harder poly bush actually.

 

I have Whiteline press-in poly bushes and they don't add too much extra NVH, yet the rear feels fairly solid, so I would recommend them. I'm not inclinded to rate SuperPro and Driftworks stuff based on feedback I've seen for various parts, but they only do slip-in bushes or solid bushes, so that rules them out for a street car anyway.

 

ps. Can S15 fit this Steering Adapter or Spacer?

 

Nope, they don't use a spacer. If by any chance I mentioned this in a past thread, I was mistaken. Check your car's steering shaft in the engine bay and you likely won't see a rubber bush anywhere on it.

 

Hi pmod

 

u mean use poly bushes with sleeve is better than too poly bushed without?

 

why it is not recommend to use with control arm etc?

 

what about nolathane which is a brand under same company as whiteline?

 

i search before superpro, people were saying good about it knurling which trap grease inside, but tend to bit softer am i right? but what are the other negative review?

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Hi pmod

u mean use poly bushes with sleeve is better than too poly bushed without?

 

For a static subframe bush that doesn't move at all, yes, they're better for fitment. With the poly bonded to the sleave and the sleave press-fitted to the tube, you'll have the most controlled positioning for the bush.

 

why it is not recommend to use with control arm etc?

 

It's not recommended for the simple reason that poly bushes bonded to a metal sleave wouldn't actually work, as control arms have to move.

 

The metal sleave can't rotate due to being a press fit, and poly is so much stiffer than rubber that there's virtually no flex. The outcome would be control arms that can't move and subsequently get bent out of shape, or bushes that snap the moment you hit a bump. I have never seen a poly control arm bush that wasn't a slip-in variety that requires lubrication in order to rotate inside the arm's bush housing. Understand that static mounts like subframe bushes don't have the same requirements as rotating mounts like control arms.

 

what about nolathane which is a brand under same company as whiteline?

 

Over the years I've heard enough "rough ride, squeaks all day" comments about all of the poly bushes from all of the brands, whether it be Nolathane, Energy Suspension, Whiteline, Superpro, etc.

 

To make it clear, I was specifically referring to subframe bushes. Whiteline offer a press-in type subframe bush, but Nolathane does not, so it doesn't matter who owns the company as the product range is different between them. Save yourself headaches and just buy the Whiteline sleaved bush if you want something stiffer than vulcanised rubber. Sure it costs more, but the last thing you want is to have to drop your subframe to fix issues should any crop up.

 

Remember, the poor man pays twice.

 

i search before superpro, people were saying good about it knurling which trap grease inside, but tend to bit softer am i right? but what are the other negative review?

 

I don't think you understand what the actual issue with poly bushes is. All poly bushes from all manufacturers require constant re-greasing, otherwise they squeak like a mouse. A grease knurling will help retain grease for longer, extending maintenance intervals, but it WILL eventually have to be re-greased, which is a tedious headache nobody needs. I've even heard of racers of oldschool cars (where poly bushes and oem rubber are the only things on the market for their cars) changing back to oem rubber because they got so sick of dealing with poly bushes.

 

People say a lot of things, but the reality is that all poly bushes are stiff, all poly bushes squeak without constant maintenance, all brands offer mostly the same thing, and all poly control arm bushes are a headache.

 

I only use poly bushes for parts that do NOT move, meaning subframe, rack and swaybar. For everything else, rubber or vulcanised rubber on a street car.

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Hi pmod

u mean use poly bushes with sleeve is better than too poly bushed without?

 

For a static subframe bush that doesn't move at all, yes, they're better for fitment. With the poly bonded to the sleave and the sleave press-fitted to the tube, you'll have the most controlled positioning for the bush.

 

why it is not recommend to use with control arm etc?

 

It's not recommended for the simple reason that poly bushes bonded to a metal sleave wouldn't actually work, as control arms have to move.

 

The metal sleave can't rotate due to being a press fit, and poly is so much stiffer than rubber that there's virtually no flex. The outcome would be control arms that can't move and subsequently get bent out of shape, or bushes that snap the moment you hit a bump. I have never seen a poly control arm bush that wasn't a slip-in variety that requires lubrication in order to rotate inside the arm's bush housing. Understand that static mounts like subframe bushes don't have the same requirements as rotating mounts like control arms.

 

what about nolathane which is a brand under same company as whiteline?

 

Over the years I've heard enough "rough ride, squeaks all day" comments about all of the poly bushes from all of the brands, whether it be Nolathane, Energy Suspension, Whiteline, Superpro, etc.

 

To make it clear, I was specifically referring to subframe bushes. Whiteline offer a press-in type subframe bush, but Nolathane does not, so it doesn't matter who owns the company as the product range is different between them. Save yourself headaches and just buy the Whiteline sleaved bush if you want something stiffer than vulcanised rubber. Sure it costs more, but the last thing you want is to have to drop your subframe to fix issues should any crop up.

 

Remember, the poor man pays twice.

 

i search before superpro, people were saying good about it knurling which trap grease inside, but tend to bit softer am i right? but what are the other negative review?

 

I don't think you understand what the actual issue with poly bushes is. All poly bushes from all manufacturers require constant re-greasing, otherwise they squeak like a mouse. A grease knurling will help retain grease for longer, extending maintenance intervals, but it WILL eventually have to be re-greased, which is a tedious headache nobody needs. I've even heard of racers of oldschool cars (where poly bushes and oem rubber are the only things on the market for their cars) changing back to oem rubber because they got so sick of dealing with poly bushes.

 

People say a lot of things, but the reality is that all poly bushes are stiff, all poly bushes squeak without constant maintenance, all brands offer mostly the same thing, and all poly control arm bushes are a headache.

 

I only use poly bushes for parts that do NOT move, meaning subframe, rack and swaybar. For everything else, rubber or vulcanised rubber on a street car.

 

haha yeah i understand the meaning of poor man pay twice. that is why i want to make sure it is a one shot job. the rest is just maintenance. so if for the arm i get nismo reinforced bush does that mean vulcanized rubber?

 

man you explain real well.

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Thanks, a big part of my job is explaining things haha. Nismo and HardRace bushes are basically the same thing, Vulcanised/Hardened Rubber, with Nismo having slightly better build quality. You might have more success sourcing Nismo control arms that include the bushes, than just the bushes themselves. If you can find Nismo bushes for a good price then get them, if you can't then grab some Hardrace bushes instead.

 

www.hardrace.com

www.hardrace.com.au

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Is there an easy way to remove the rear lower control arm bushes? The shell of the bush insert doesn't seem to have a step that you can get a press fitting onto, just a full-faced flat on one side. looks like it needs the flat side cut so you can get a press on the 'flat' side.

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I just did those, I ended up burning them out and then hack sawing through the shell, similar to what people do with the subframe bushes.

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Thanks, a big part of my job is explaining things haha. Nismo and HardRace bushes are basically the same thing, Vulcanised/Hardened Rubber, with Nismo having slightly better build quality. You might have more success sourcing Nismo control arms that include the bushes, than just the bushes themselves. If you can find Nismo bushes for a good price then get them, if you can't then grab some Hardrace bushes instead.

 

www.hardrace.com

www.hardrace.com.au

 

Thanks pmod

 

One more thing is what roberto bring up. Is there any difference with a pop out or flat surface in all bushes around the arms, diff and especially the subframe, like what i have mark in the photo?

 

ada.jpgadaa.jpg

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No, since you're tightening the bolt/nut against the metal sleave. They look different because they have to be different, since one is a bonded unit and the other slips in place with grease.

 

Roberto is actually talking about something completely different, namely removal of an oem bush, in which there is a lip on one side that makes it impossible to press out in a conventional way.

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Roberto: use a small hole saw to cut the rubber centre out, then cut the sleeve with a hacksaw. Burning out bushes is slow and messy

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Roberto: use a small hole saw to cut the rubber centre out, then cut the sleeve with a hacksaw. Burning out bushes is slow and messy

 

Thanks - will give that a try.

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Yeah I did the same thing on the LCAs; used one of my spare wood holesaws and it burrowed through no problems. Hacksaw the inside, hammer a screwdriver under the cut to lever it open, bend it out, slot in socket and knock it out.

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Bling your guide for removing the subframe bushes was how I did it, thanks.

I didn't think about using a holesaw, would do that over burning them out.

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