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The Panda

Clutch problems

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Anyway, so i finished the man coversion in the 180 and now i have a bit of a bitch of a problem. I bled the clutch myself but it felt like the clutch never really disengaged so i took it to a mechanic and got them to bleed it (figuring i was just retarded and thats fine). Got my mate to drive the car home from the mechs and now its virtually impossible to change gears while the car is on, because the clutch is constantly engaged. For instance, to get into my garage, we had to turn the car off, put it in first with clutch to floor, and with the clutch fully in and the brake off it rolled forward like an auto!!!!

 

Any suggestions????

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Anyway, so i finished the man coversion in the 180 and now i have a bit of a bitch of a problem. I bled the clutch myself but it felt like the clutch never really disengaged so i took it to a mechanic and got them to bleed it (figuring i was just retarded and thats fine). Got my mate to drive the car home from the mechs and now its virtually impossible to change gears while the car is on, because the clutch is constantly engaged. For instance, to get into my garage, we had to turn the car off, put it in first with clutch to floor, and with the clutch fully in and the brake off it rolled forward like an auto!!!!

 

Any suggestions????

 

Bleed it again from top to bottom, so master cylinder first through to the slave. Do it by attaching a hose going into a bottle (or go buy a $10 1 man bleeder kit) to the bleed nipple (so brake fluid doesn't go everywhere) and have a friend in the car get them to pump the clutch a couple of times then get them to hold it down to the floor then release the pressure by undoing the bleed nipple. Do the same procedure for the dampening block and the slave.

 

If that doesn't work then try this:

 

Screw out the adjustment at the top of the pedal - need plyers and 10mm spanner (i think)

 

Remove the little clip that retains the pivot pin at the top of the clutch pedal, you may or may not need the spanner to loosen the adjuster and wind it out (towards the pedal) about 5mm, reassemble and see if the clutch works properly after that.

 

If that doesn't work, while you under the dash adjusting the pedal have a look at the clutch pedal assembly itself - they are prone to cracking the frame and pulling apart the spot welds which gives the pedal decreased travel on the master cylinder as the frame flexes. To fix this take out the pedal assembly - 3 10mm nuts i believe (2 that hold master cylinder to the firewall and one that goes to the dash bar under the dash) the and take it somewhere to get it welded back together and strengthened (most exhaust shops will do it for $10)

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Ive got the same problem. Although its a little different, been meaning to get some help on it. My s15 has a Exedy sports tuff HD clutch in it about 9,000km's ago. Ive had this problem for a while. In the mornings when its freezing cold, i cannot possibly get into gear no matter how hard I try and regardless what gear 1st,2nd R etc. Only when the car warms up for about 10 minutes i get some sort of movement. Even then sometimes i have to turn off the car and put it into gear, then start with clutch in and reverse out, then needing to turn the car off to get back into 1st. I get the same auto movement as the OP is talking about, but its very slight crawling even with the clutch fully down. I guess its safe to assume that is a clutch problem

 

Now i know for a fact that when my new clutch was placed in, it wasn't bled. On these freezing cold starts my clutch feels like mush. After i get the car warming up and drive for a bit, my clutch seems to build more resistance and the gear changing is smooth and perfectly fine. What i want to know is, is the freezing temperature affecting something? because its absolutely fine after warmed up and driven for a bit. Or is it purely the fact that the clutch wasn't bled?

 

Cheers in advance for the help and sorry for the hijack OP :)

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Well in theory you shouldn;t have to bleed the clutch for a clutch change as the slave is removed ftom the gearbox before its removed from the engine - the lines should not be disconnected therefore no air has got in the system so no need for bleeding.

 

But thats all dependant on how the clutch was done as whoever did it may have undone the line to the slave without detaching the slave from the gearbox and then it would have needed bleeding.

 

OP, also might pay to check the master or the slave is not leaking at all anywhere - you'll be able to see if the master is leaking by looking in under the dash and you will see a line of clutch fluid from the rod that goes into the master down the firewall and with the slave, pull back the boot and see if there is any fluid in there. If you see either if these first thing to do would be to replace whatever is leaking and see if that improves it or not, if it doesn't or nothing is leaking, check the pedal assemble bracket for cracks/tears, if none then try adjusting it.

 

Another posibility is that the pivot ball fo r the clutch for is broken, you may be able to pull the dust cover back far enough to have a look fork assembly - not 100% sure on that though, but have a look if you can.

 

Last thing would be that the clutch you have in there is defective in some way.

 

Loccie_s15 - Check the cluch pedal bracket is not cracked or torn the spot welds. HD clutches place a lot of extra load on the assembly due to the extra clamp load on the pressure plate, extra load that the bracket was not designed to take. Same thing happend on my 33, hard to get into gear but improved when warmed up.

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Thank you so much dude. Amazingly helpful, will try everything today/tonight/overnight :)

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Cheers for the help blimp. Just went out to check for any cracks on the clutch bracket, couldn't find any. Started her up with the outside temperature being a lot better then the cold mornings...couldn't get into gear even still. Soon as the temp gauge hit warm tho...Got into gear fine. This problem seems to be getting worse...I only had this issue a few times a couple months ago but yeah soon as the weather got a lot colder, im pretty much having to resort to turning the car off and clutching in to get in gear every morning (in a rush so cant let car warm up properly). Are there any other suggestions? or theory's? Should i just take it somewhere to get checked? Because its starting to annoy me now ahah. All i know was it was fine with the stock clutch, i could get into gear even on the most freezing mornings with no dramas. Put the HD in and here i am lol

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Turned out that i need to adjust the length of the rod between the pedal and master cylinder. All gravy baby :)

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And my slave cylinder just smashed its seal and leaked all my fluid onto the road on the pac hwy.

 

GHEY!

 

Now i need a new one

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And my slave cylinder just smashed its seal and leaked all my fluid onto the road on the pac hwy.

 

GHEY!

 

Now i need a new one

 

 

I have a spare SR20 slave cylinder I've been meaning to sell. Works a treat, just swapped it out for a Nismo unit.

PM me if you're interested.

 

As for the general clutch issues people have been having, some further recommendations when troubleshooting:

 

1. Remove the clutch damper between the slave and the master

There are plenty of guides to achieving this; the route I took was to unbolt the lines and very carefully bend the master's hard-line into the slaves flexible line, then bleed.

Best free mod you can do, hands down. Even better than the nismo braided replacement line, however there is a real risk of breakage when bending.

 

2. Disconnect the clutch master, pop it in a vice, remove the plunger and check all the rubber seals are good.

Shredded rubber seals cause the weirdest problems... had that issue with a brake master after it accidently had it's fluid drained (accident whilst the calipers were off).

Edited by pmod

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Cheers for the help blimp. Just went out to check for any cracks on the clutch bracket, couldn't find any. Started her up with the outside temperature being a lot better then the cold mornings...couldn't get into gear even still. Soon as the temp gauge hit warm tho...Got into gear fine. This problem seems to be getting worse...I only had this issue a few times a couple months ago but yeah soon as the weather got a lot colder, im pretty much having to resort to turning the car off and clutching in to get in gear every morning (in a rush so cant let car warm up properly). Are there any other suggestions? or theory's? Should i just take it somewhere to get checked? Because its starting to annoy me now ahah. All i know was it was fine with the stock clutch, i could get into gear even on the most freezing mornings with no dramas. Put the HD in and here i am lol

 

Who did the clutch for you? If it was done by a workshop take it back to them and tell them this issue and get them to have a look at it, if they try charging you to have a look at it tell them the problem has only cropped up since the clutch was done which leaves it their responisbility to make sure its working properly.

 

My only other suggestion is try adjusting the master cylinder rod postion at the top of the pedal, try only winding it out only 2 - 4 rotations at a time, reconnect it all again and see if that improves the problem when cold. Its a hard problem to diagnose without actually looking at the setup workings.

 

Good luck!

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I have this problem too, put in a new box.

forgot to check the life of the clutch.

having to keep bleeding entire system every two weeks.

HATE IT.

Got a new slave cylinder line made up $40.

hasnt fixed my issue which stumped me.

 

Very sticky between gears.

going to try some LIGHTWEIGHT SHOCKPROOF (redline) see if it helps.

 

so close to switching to auto tell ya what!~!~~~~~~

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Got a new cylinder, installed and bled the system all sweet.

 

Turned key, put clutch in to change gear, made terrible noise.

 

 

Destroyed another clutch slave cylinder. What the hell is going on? My clutch is making a horrible scraping noise, apparantly its the prongs which were bent a little bit when i put the gearbox in. Clutch moved when car was off, but as soon as it was on the slave just imploded and died.

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Got a new cylinder, installed and bled the system all sweet.

 

Turned key, put clutch in to change gear, made terrible noise.

 

 

Destroyed another clutch slave cylinder. What the hell is going on? My clutch is making a horrible scraping noise, apparantly its the prongs which were bent a little bit when i put the gearbox in. Clutch moved when car was off, but as soon as it was on the slave just imploded and died.

 

I guess it's a good thing that the slave cylinder is really easy to rebuild. It's little more than a bored metal block, a spring behind a brass piston and a rubber boot that holds it all in. Assuming you haven't scored the piston bore, a new boot = a rebuilt cylinder. A clutch shop should be able to sell you one.

 

As for your problem, the only obvious way the slave will break (i.e. the rubber boot ruptures) is if there isn't any resistance, so the piston will be pushed all the way out.

Your clutch master or pedal adjust is unlikely to cause this - it would be the release fork sitting to far towards the engine.

 

As for the in-when-off and bust-when-on problem, it sounds like one of the following:

- Misalignment of the clutch driven plate on the gearbox splines (impossible, as far as I'm aware; if it's off centre, the box won't go on)

- Used the wrong bearing cartridge *

- Used a bent clutch release fork

- Inserted the bearing cartridge the wrong way around

- Installed the release fork sprung wire the wrong way around

- Didn't lube the gearbox splines properly; used too much or too little bearing grease

- Broken pivot ball (it does happen, however I have a 15yr old pivot on mine and have had a 5-ouck button for over 3 years with no issues)

 

* Always use the bearing that came with the clutch kit. Genuine Nissan bearings will NOT work properly with some aftermarket clutches, in fact I'd go out on a limb and say that it will be wrong for most heavy-duty clutches. I know for a fact that Exedy HD clutches use different bearings.

Essentially the issue is that the face of the bearing may contact a different area of the pressure plate fins, which will alter the load on the pressure plate and release forks. It will potentially change the weight of the clutch pedal, fail to fully disengage the clutch or simply break stuff, bend forks, etc.

Edited by pmod

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How would i be able to tell if the clutch release fork is broken or bent? Or any of the other ones that you high lighted? My friend speculated that my clutch could have seized? (i did use a second hand clutch that came with the gearbox) I also wasnt aware that the splines had to be lubricated?

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How would i be able to tell if the clutch release fork is broken or bent? Or any of the other ones that you high lighted? My friend speculated that my clutch could have seized? (i did use a second hand clutch that came with the gearbox) I also wasnt aware that the splines had to be lubricated?

 

Yes, they should be lubed. Both the clutch driven plate and the throwout bearing slide across the shaft.

Irrespective, the rule of thumb is that if there exists something that slides over a set of splines, then the splines should be lubed.

 

Unfortunately... troubleshooting will probably entail yanking the box and checking everything.

Naturally, try everything that people have suggested that don't involve box removal first (just in case I turn out to be wrong; it's not like I've seen the issue first hand), however I don't think these will solve this problem.

 

1. Misalignment of the clutch driven plate on the gearbox splines (impossible, as far as I'm aware; if it's off centre, the box won't go on)

Really don't think this will be the case. Like I said, it's generally good... or not. If the box fits, it should be sweet.

I say this having changed a good number of clutches and never using an alignment tool. I just use eye, a ruler and a rod of dowel wrapped in gaffa tape. Every box slid in first time, and the clutch worked flawlessly, with the exception of one occasion where the alignment was off, and the box didn't go in so I did it again.

2. Used the wrong bearing cartridge *

If you didn't check, the only way to know is to yank the box and inspect. You can phone the clutch manufacturer and confirm part number compatibility, or run an internet search. If it's running a Nissan bearing with an aftermarket clutch, then definitely check.

3. Used a bent clutch release fork

Yank box, compare with one that isn't rooted. Only way to know if damage isn't obvious.

 

4. Inserted the bearing cartridge the wrong way around

5. Installed the release fork sprung wire the wrong way around

Yank box, refer to original service manual for the correct alignment position. FYI the box almost certainly will go on with the wrong alignment, but won't work right.

 

6. Didn't lube the gearbox splines properly; used too much or too little bearing grease

Yank box, do it again. Probably not the issue, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Should always be done.

I just use bearing grease, but you can buy speciality lube.

 

7. Broken pivot ball (it does happen, however I have a 15yr old pivot on mine and have had a 5-ouck button for over 3 years with no issues)

Yank box and check. If there is a snapped thing where the pivot used to be... well, it's time for a Nismo one.

Edited by pmod

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Newbie poster of the year award goes to pmod!! Well done. :)

 

We have both Nismo slave cylinders and Nismo pivot balls in stock, www.jdmobsession.net

 

Located in Sydney too! :)

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You are a legend dude. Thank you so much.

 

I will need another slave cyl at some point, but not going to invest in a nismo one if i think im just going to break it

 

I have checked and double checked everything outside the gearbox. But the reality is there is not much to check. Im either going to work up the courage to put the car up on stands again, or im just going to have to pay a mech to fix it all

Edited by The Panda

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You are a legend dude. Thank you so much.

 

I will need another slave cyl at some point, but not going to invest in a nismo one if i think im just going to break it

 

I have checked and double checked everything outside the gearbox. But the reality is there is not much to check. Im either going to work up the courage to put the car up on stands again, or im just going to have to pay a mech to fix it all

 

 

No probs, happy to help guys.

 

 

I can't say I envy the position you're currently in; removing the top few gearbox bolts is a giant pain in the ass, as you may already know.

I'd invest in some stubby ratchet spanners were I to do that again, although these days I'd probably just hoist the engine and gearbox out at once.

 

If you do it youself (again?), I strongly recommend some minor purchases first:

- Buy a 500mL fluid syringe. This will get the gear oil in the fill plug sweet, and is much nicer than using the gearstick hole. A must for diff fluid too.

- Buy a spare gearbox Fill Plug and Drain Plug. They usually get chewed to hell, so try to crack them whilst the car is on the ground, rather than stands.

- Buy a quality 1/2" square socket driver extension if you don't already have one (think Sidchrome, Kinchrome, SnapOn). Nissan won't sell me one of their removal sockets, but it seems that a good 1/2" is the way.

- Buy 3L of Redline Super Lightweight Shockproof. Magic, magic oil. Fixed my gearbox shifting problems completely.

- Buy a can of brake dust cleaner spray and give the inside of the bellhousing a good clean. Less dust will help avoid anything ceasing.

- Lastly, don't forget to drain the gearbox oil. I forgot to do this once... fortunately I wasn't the one who got oil all over their jacket and threw a hissy fit, so all was well.

 

 

Miscellaneous comment that sounds like a sales plug:

If ever you decide to switch to a button or even HD organic later on, I strongly recommend the Nismo slave. It was one of the most pleasing mods of all the changes I made to my 180. That and removing the clutch damper.

Whilst they don't cause a massive change in pedal strength (your clutch pedal won't unexpectedly don a pink miniskirt and transform into limp a Hyundai Excel product), you really notice the difference after a decent drive in traffic.

Brings it closer to a factory weight, which is a win in my books.

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So i took the gearbox off.

 

Anddddddd the input shaft housing had completely shat itself and the part which the thrust bearing sits on had broken and started exploring the bell housing.

 

That and the clutch fork has huge crack and some wierd f**king angle on it. Cool story gearbox.

 

New clutch fork, new input shaft housing and thrust bearing. Should be sweet :):)

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So i took the gearbox off.

 

Anddddddd the input shaft housing had completely shat itself and the part which the thrust bearing sits on had broken and started exploring the bell housing.

 

That and the clutch fork has huge crack and some wierd f**king angle on it. Cool story gearbox.

 

New clutch fork, new input shaft housing and thrust bearing. Should be sweet :):)

 

 

Yep, that'd do it alright. :-)

 

Nice job finding the cause dude - bet you're stoked that you now have a definite path to correct the problem.

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Just a q if you are able to answer. I blew my gearbox a while ago & bought a 2nd hand one thats done 70k, looks like its been opened at one stage.....

I have to bleed my clutch every 2 weeks as it keeps going from reletively easy to change gears, to being a complete bitch!! I bled it correctly everytime but it keeps going foul on me.....

 

Its almost impossible to get it into 1st & reverse mostly when it hits this stage.

Although, strange, but very easy to get into gears when the engine is not on.

I did realise the other day that I used a gen nissan thrust bearing instead of an EXEDY bearing.

 

any help would be great. im stumped.

 

 

No probs.

 

 

Although gearboxes themselves aren't exactly an area of speciality for me, there are a few things that occur to me after reading this.

 

 

 

COMMENTS ON SYMPTOMS:

1. Gearbox has been opened

Since you have an S15, you probably also have a 6-speed. These break with a bit of thrashing, and the Nissan bearings are probably the same as the S13, which start to whine a lot and eventually die. Chances are the box enjoyed 70,000 hard kilometers, so repairs wouldn't surprise me at all. Just pray it doesn't leak.

 

2. Can't get into First and Reverse easily

This doesn't surprise me, as these are the only two gears that have no synchromesh. They will be harder to get into, period.

Consider this; first is designed to be used from when stationary, and reverse sends you in the opposite direction to your other 6 gears. In both scenarios, the manufacturer expects you to stop the car first, hence there is no synchromesh for a smooth shift. Also, I would expect the extra torque experienced by both gears is probably another incentive.

 

3. Can shift ok when off

This is normal. The clutch only exists to avoid a mismatch in wheel and engine rotation speeds when changing gears, so ultimately you don't technically need a clutch in order to shift gears when nothing is moving. If you can shift gears stationary, with the engine off, then that hints to me that your gearbox is probably ok.

 

4. Nissan bearing with an Exedy clutch

The issue with the bearings is that their contact faces are different diameters. Sure, the bearings are the same overall diameter, however I've compared Nissan and Exedy HD bearings, and the point that the Exedy physically touches the pressure plate is further from the center than the Nissan. This will result in the Exedy feeling heavier, but will move the presssure-plate's fins further.

 

 

 

THE CAUSES:

 

I think you have a few things going on:

 

1. The gears are probably a little worn, and you need an oil that promotes better shifting.

2. There is a seal failure or air leak somewhere in the clutch lines.

3. You have the wrong bearing, so you may not be able to fully-disengage the clutch.

 

 

 

THE SOLUTION(S):

 

Problem One:

Drain your gearbox oil and fill with Redline Super Lightweight Shockproof.

I have tried other [expensive] oils and my gearbox still crunched; this solved that problem.

 

Problem Two:

Unbolt your clutch system and inspect it. Sure it's a pain in the ass, but it's simple and definitely worth doing.

Do the following:

a. Disassemble clutch slave, clean everything, replace the rubber boot if perished, lube with brake fluid, reassemble.

b. Remove the Nissan clutch damper if it's there, and don't put it back in. Trust me, it really won't help you

c. Remove the clutch hardlines and flex pipe, connect them to an air compressor, then blast all the crap out of them.

d. Disassemble clutch master (see Nissan Service Manual for instructions - not hard to do), clean everything, lube with brake fluid, reassemble, bench bleed.

- If the bore of the cylinder is damaged, buy another one or have a clutch shop sleeve it

- If the rubber plunger seals are damaged or degraded, replace ALL of them. See Nissan Parts or a clutch shop

- If the Reservior seals are damaged or degraded, replace them.

e. Reinstall everything except the damper

f. Carefully bleed the system using new brake fluid (never never never reuse it)

 

Problem Three:

If you still have some weird issues after fixing Problems 1 and 2, then this is the time to change the bearing.

Should this fail to fix the issue, and the bearing housing/release fork/springs/fork boot/pressure plate/driven plate are all good, then take your gearbox to a shop.

Remember, the bearing must be pressed out and into the housing, so if you don't have a press (or big f**k off bench vice), then take it to a shop.

 

 

I might add this info and your question to the original thread too - could help someone in a similar position.

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Bit of a revive here but thought I rather then creating another thread I'd utilize one with relevant info.

 

Just purchased a ORC Ogura single plate for my s14 gearbox which lives in my s15, couple of questions. Firstly the old clutch was a HD Exedy and sitting them beside each other both bolted to flywheels the ORC is smaller in height by around 5 mm does this effect the throw of the clutch fork? as in will i have to adjust my master cylinder rod to take up the 5 mm or so slack so to speak? because the throwout bearing will be 5 mm further from the pressure plate straight of the bat, the 5 mm takes into account the difference between the new and old throwout bearings.

 

I hope that isn't too confusing.

 

Cheers, Ben

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Clutch problem is the not big problem in every vehicle but the most dangerous thing that you have the problems in your vehicle is clutch problems. This is the dissertation writing service who has to very conscious about their car and also share experiences.

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